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With Ulvi Avşar.... Ulvi Avşar was born in 1940. I met him at the end of60’s. He was a friend of Mutlu Torun and he introduced us each other. He used to work at avery small room at Acıbadem. He wrote his firstflamenco scores at that room. He announced at radio programs; “Look, I amplaying this fandango” while nobody knew such a thing. For many years hewas the manager of Odeon Music at Kadıkoy. Sincethose days till now he has always been our teacher and master by keeping theflamenco fire alive in him and with his sharing nature. Ulvi Avşar is a name in Turkey which comes to mind when youmention flamenco. That’s why, it was a must tomake the first interview of this series with him. It was a very pleasinginterview for me and a real first for the music community. Hope you will enjoyreading. Ilgaz Benekay : Dear brother Ulvi, as far as Iknow you are the first flamenco guitarist in Turkey , when did you started tofeel the passion of flamenco? Ulvi Avşar : As you may know I had no greatinterest in music first. In my youth, after I finished the military duty, Itook guitar lessons from Rıza Başkalıoğlu for one year. We had a veryclose friendship with him. At those times, I used to go Yuksekkalıdırımand stroll around there... there were notes, guitars, strings. Then one day I caughta glimpse of a LP. That LP was Carlos Montaya’s.I bought that record, I still keep it. I have bought it just because it wasrelated to a guitar but I did not know what exactly it was. You know how thethings were at those times. It was really hard to listen a record 45 years ago.There used to be a record player with a cover of Philips. Then I listened tothat record and though I was playing classical guitar I couldn’tunderstand that music. Ilgaz Benekay : ...and it stroke you.... Ulvi Avşar : Yes it stroked me in deed. The man was playingrasgueados just like takatakata....therewere these sounds. I thought; “My God, how does he do that with guitar?Maybe he is playing a tremolo and another person is playing the base notes, yesmaybe there are 2 men playing… The melody still continues at the bottom.I decided that I should explore this style, how they do it. How do they playthis way? I used to have a friendin Italy .We were together during military duty. I wrote a letter to him and told himthat I started to play guitar. I requested scores from him and so he sent mescores of Tarrega. There were no flamenco scores hereat those times. Then I figured out that there was an address – thepublisher’s - on the scores. I corresponded with them. It was a publishernamed Nino Musical Espanol. I ordered a few scorefrom them then I began to find other sources... Ilgaz Benekay : Then you presented these sourcesalso to me. All those old scores… I remember those very well... Ulvi Avşar : While I was exploring flamenco, Iused to tell my wife; “If I may not be able to go to Spain , I willdie with eyes open.” She half agreed and half not and then I went Spain in 1971.To see how they play from the first hand… I stayed 10 days in Madrid . There was a mannamed Rafael Nogales there, also you may heard of him. Ilgaz Benekay : Yes, also Mutlu Torun had also taken lessons from him... Ulvi Af?ar: Yes, he has also studied with Nogales. It did not last a long time for me, we studied only for 2 days ?ok s?rmedi,?just to see how things are. All in all I stayed only 5 days there. So we only syudied for 2 or 3 days with him. Then I found Luis Maravilla?s shop.
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Ilgaz Benekay: Did know that he is still living? He is about 90 something?Ulvi Avşar : I have his book with hisautograph, I still keep it. Then I talked with him and received information. Ibought more documents from there of course with my limited money. Afterwards, Ihad a chance to perform at a radio in 1971, thanks to IrkinAktüze. Let’s remember him here…Hewas a very good person. We can say he was the veteran of flamenco. He was justa brother to us and we loved him much. On the daywe gathered at a friend’s house… There, some plays this and otherplays that and I played also. Irkin told me;“why not we do a radio show with you” and I said;“Yes”. So we did the program in 1971. It lasted for a few months.Nay, that time I have called you; and told you to turn the radio on and listen.So that’s the way flamenco passion started to grow in me and it stillgrows. At the age of 65, it still lives just the same it started. But what isthe thing that has vanished? I do not tend to perform or play because someincidents and some losses. But I did not stop still researching, reading andwriting a bit. I’ll keep doing these till I die because that’s theway I improve myself. Ilgaz Benekay : We may that now accompaniment to cante is much preferred these days, in this sense, tocreate the duende, dance/baile,singing/cante and guitar should be together. This ishow the things are in Andalucia in these days... Ulvi Avşar : Of course, the integrity of thesethree factors is what impresses people... I wish we could do this... Ilgaz Benekay : This is completely right, inthose days we should play solo as Sabicas or Paco de Lucia did. I think that playing solo was a resultof impossibility because we did not have a singer so that we could have sit andaccompany him or her or neither a dancer we had. Ulvi Avşar : That’s right we did nothave and also you know that there are phases which flamenco went through. Inthose years in 1800’s when flamenco was born, the gypsy community waspoor and closed united and they were just performing this style for their own. Ilgaz Benekay : Yes, true. Forthe weddings and funerals… Ulvi Avşar : So for themselves. They nevertend to perform at other places for other people. But when time comes and in1900’s they started to perform it on stage. Ramon Montoya was the firstas a soloist then Paco de Lucia..Music started to spread out in world. As you see, now everything you see andlisten is in our hands. While there were no guitar there was cante/singing and then guitar evolved to accompany to cante. This is the way how things improve. And there is noend to it. We will see how far it goes. Ilgaz Benekay : Dear brother Ulvi,what do you recommend to young flamenco musicians/performers for them to learnmore and more and improve? They have all the opportunities within their reach,they have internet... Ulvi Avşar : I will say things through myexperiences. First of all, they should listen much. The most important thing islistening. And while listening, if possible, to listen following the scoresalso, accompanying while listening as much as they can, playing with it, theyhave larger means today. I mean, they have tempo decelerators or many othercomputer programs in their aid, many opportunities I may say. In short they cando everything. So the best thing to do is to study the scores while listeningand first starting slowly to accompany and in time reach the normal tempo. Andalso if they study in front of a mirror and check their position while playing,it is a good and logical way of learning. And last but the least, the importantthing is to learn from a master. Ilgaz Benekay: We really thank for yourrecommendations. As far as I remember you also had some experience injournalism and some of your essays published in various magazines. Could youtell us about it?
Ulvi Afşar:I think it was in 1998. There was a magazine published with the name “Muzik”. It was a magazine which was based on musicalevents and various subjects about music. It was really a colorful magazinetaking jazz, pop or even rock as a subject. So Flamenco was also a subject forthem. They started taking information about flamenco from me so after our firstcontact I prepared five or six booklets about flamenco. Unfortunately aseverything related to music in Turkey ,this magazine also couldn’t last so long. Ilgaz Benekay : Now let’s talk about yourconcerts. As far as I remember you had concerts together with Mutlu Torun... Ulvi Avşar : You already know that I madeperformances also with Bahadir...at Aksanat, Institute Françaisd’Istanbul. At our last concert in Cemal Reşit Rey, Bahadir and I performed as aduo, also Mutlu Torun and Umut played and Ferruh Yarkın accompanied us at the percussions. Though thefour of us were not used to play together all the time, we were not a group. Forinstance, first Bahadır and I played guitar as aduo, then Mutlu and I played lute and guitar, maybe 3or 4 pieces. Then the whole group played together everybody with his owninstrument with the percussions accompanying. In this way, in 2002 December, wehad a concert in Cemal ReşitRey. After this we can say that I turned this page ofguitar playing. We do not give concerts anymore. Ilgaz Benekay : 1999 Marmaraearthquake was not just a natural occasion for you.... assume you had somelosses at Yalova, though I am deeply grieved to talkwith you about this subject...Ulvi Avşar : Life goes on. Incidentally, I was at Küçükyalı.We rushed there with still some hope. Everything has crushed down. There I lostboth my wife and daughter. Ilgaz Benekay : And also you lost your finger... Ulvi Avşar : Yes, and then in this depressivemood, I started to feel reluctant to play guitar. Maybe due to lack of a fingerI feel depressed about the outlook and though this finger is not much used playingflamenco, in the end I feel imbalanced. Ilgaz Benekay : Besides this, there is one thingwhich I really appreciate about you. As far as I know, you have a handicap alsoat your middle finger and you used to play picadosonly with index (i) and ring-finger (a) and used toplay very fast. Ulvi Avşar : Yes, because I had a tendinitis in my youth. So while it was welding, one tendonstarted not to move. As a consequence I am disabled. I mean, one finger islost, the other is not moving. Despite of all these, we were giving concerts.So this should be an example for the young people while they have healthy handsand fingers, they should play. Ilgaz Benekay : That’s why I broached thissubject, despite of all these things you performed on the stage. Ulvi Avşar : I was in this position at the concertin Cemal Reşit Rey, not that I was healthy. I have still the posters. Sothere is nothing a man can do if he really wishes much. Of course, there shouldbe some advisers helping and guiding the way. Ilgaz Benekay : As you guided us... Ulvi Avşar : Not at all, I mean if we had sameopportunities as today maybe many things would be different. Ilgaz Benekay : But really I was so sorry to seeyou more decayed with age after the funeral and the following period. Howevertoday, while I do this interview I am so happy. Do you know why? It’sbecause I see Ulvi Avşarsitting in front of me with shining eyes, same as I have seen for the firsttime long ago at Odeon store. Ulvi Avşar : That’s a compliment. Thankyou very much. Ilgaz Benekay : And I have bought my firstRamirez from you. So thanks to you I have possessed a very beautiful guitar. Ulvi Avşar : With the money of that Ramirez, Ihave bought some things to my house. Ilgaz Benekay : I know. That’s why you havesold it. These are very happy moments in my life. That’s real history forme. Ulvi Avşar : It’s roughly 45 years, wemay say that flamenco history begins since then. But now I am really happy. Atthose times, we were only one or two people but today there are many youngpeople, I really appreciate this. There are many who plays and many groups.Yet, I tell them to do it. They should play because they have manyopportunities, not like us. Ilgaz Benekay : You use these opportunities ofthis age also. I saw your note writings at the computer. I like it very much. Ulvi Avşar : Yes, that program is very useful.I hope we’ll share all those scores with young people. Ilgaz Benekay : So in the end of our interview,we would like to hear some words you may say to Turkish flamenco performers. Ulvi Avşar : First of all, as I said, theyshould study. As much and long as possible in a day time…You know the key to be successful is working hard. You know this well, you area teacher. I also teach now. For instance, I teach to a group of two people. Iteach the same things and give the same piece as a homework.The next week, they come again, one of them has not improved a bit but theother has improved. So I say the one who works easily does it but the othercannot improve. I am aware such things depend on will but how far it goes, ifyou do not study, you stay where you are all the time. So working hard is amust. Same as I said for listening. One’s got to listen to the piececomparing it with the score. One’s got to learn the essence. I mean, ittakes studying it with consciousness the accents, stresses, tempo, rhythms. Youknow that in the old times we studied without any lead and unconsciousness. Forexample, let’s take Soleares, we played Soleares but how? Now we say it finishes at the 12’th time. The accent is on the third and sixth, eg. You teach these, I mean. But we strived to learn it.But the young generation learns this easily. Ilgaz Benekay : While finishing our interview, Iwould like to say to our readers especially to guitarists, my advise is to setyou as an example. Because you did not dread even if you had disabilitiesbecause of your fingers, you kept playing and tried to do the best things. Alsoon my behalf, I say, fortunately you have found that record of Ramon Montoyaand fortunately you have listened to it and finally this reflects to us and wehave followed this way. I think this way. Ulvi Avşar : Thank you very much. Ilgaz Benekay : We thank you for everything.. Ilgaz Benekay 03.09.2005, Istanbul |
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