With Do?an Canku

Ilgaz Benekay : With reader?s permission I will call him with his first name, Do?an because we had many memories together. I would like you to take you back to old days and talk about history. I remember that I met you by I??k Yavuz. In Ankara Kent Hotel, I??k used to sing there. Parla was accompanying him with his guitar?He is a very good jazz guitarist. You, as Modern Folk ??l?s? (Modern Folk Trio), used to work there also and at the end Nesrin Sipahi was performing Turkish music. We became friends at those days.

You have a very colorful personality. Each one is unique. For instance, there is a period when you were in the conservatoire, as a musician. Besides these, I know that you are interested in meditation. You are a good husband and father at the same time. I also know that you are a very good teacher with pedagogical background. Among these, we are interested in your flamenco aspect. Just at the beginning of 70?s were the times when you call me and say; ?Come Ilgaz, listen, last night I sat and learnt Paco Pena?s Lalola by listening?. Those were the times when there was a very few or no people who knew what is Lalola or who is Paco Pena and you were practicing or playing these. We should always bear in mind the fact that as Moden Folk ??l?s? you put your stamp on music in Turkey. Can you tell us how come you were involved in flamenco?

Do?an Canku : Before going to conservatoire, between the period 55 to 58, my father was an officer in Soma which is a small county of Manisa. I was in elementary school also living my childhood happily in the forests. Also I was playing mandolin and violin which my father taught me. I was trying to play the piece I have heard at the radio we used to listen, there were no records at those times. Radio was playing one or two tangos maybe, Argentina tangos, or Spanish pieces time to time. I was playing some of them with my mandolin. I liked the melodies.

Ilgaz Benekay : You mean you were feeling closer to tangos and Spanish music.

Do?an Canku : Yes. Then, one year before I went to conservatoire, a man came up. He was playing guitar. I saw the guitar first at him. Before that guitar was something I knew by name only. He was playing very simple and plain. But he was not playing flamenco either. It was something like American folk music, like Country music. I loved guitar at that moment. I loved it, being a polyphonic instrument and being unlike violin or mandolin. In this way, it stayed at the corner of my mind. Then I went to conservatoire. I met Sait S?kmen there who was a ballet student there. He had a guitar in his house. He used to play and sing one or two Brazillian sambas near the pool. That was the second time when I saw someone singing by guitar. They used to show the films of some classical concerts at the conservatoire. I watched Segovia there. When I watched him, I said to myself; ?This is the way the guitar is played?. So in time, some feeling evoked in me for the guitar? I somehow had a broken guitar. But the thing is playing guitar was forbidden at the conservatoire. Though they were showing the concerts, they were not accepting it as an instrument.

Ilgaz Benekay : Same as flamenco is forbidden at the conservatoires today.

Do?an Canku : I remember also Turkish folkloric music was also forbidden, wasn?t it? One of my friends helped me. I used to tune it like a lute. Tuned with 4-intervals? I didn?t know the third between G and B. There was no method, or anything else. He tuned it for me. He told me to study a C major piece from Carcassi method and said that this is the way that the guitar is played. So I played. I started to study almost at noon and in the afternoon I have finished the piece. It was the first time I played guitar so my friend shocked. So he said; ?You will be a guitarist? and this is how the adventure began. Of course we have listened to some flamenco music but we have never listened to a flamenco guitarist.

Ilgaz Benekay : You mean there were no visual sources, only the things you heard from radio.

Do?an Canku : Yes no visual records. And yet it was almost nothing what we listened from the radio. I know, I was a classical guitarist. But one day I came home with a Sabicas record and at that moment flamenco started for me.

Ilgaz Benekay : The first struck...

Do?an Canku : I was struck and fall down to pieces so started escaping from the lessons. I had 6 more years and I was so talented and the teachers did not want me to quit. I was arguing with them all the time. And yet they did not send me to discipline committee since I was precious. But I ruined my self with lack of continuity so the conservatoire case was closed for me. So listening to those records a million times, as you mentioned before, I tried to do something. A friend of mine came and he showed me his tremolo with i (index) and m (middle) fingers. So he was using his fingers contrary what we have learnt or studied. So I figured out that my own way without any methods only by hearing. There was nobody to teach. But then I found an old album of Paco de Lucia. There was a Rondena there. At those times I met Salim D?ndar. Actually I have already started to work professionally at some places.

Ilgaz Benekay : Oh, all these things happen in Ankara, don?t they?

Do?an Canku : There was a skyscraper in Ankara, it was built new. You know where? The building had a terrace. I was playing guitar at the cafe there. One day someone was eating but also listening to me with great attention. I said to myself; ?OK there is a careful and interested audience so I will show my talents?. He stood up and came to me. It was Salim D?ndar. He said; ?I interested in Spanish music, would like to work with me?? I accepted and so it started. I was accompanying him while he played Spanish paso dobles and flamenco pieces. I had my own Solaeres then. A halfway Solaeres of course?The date was 68, I guess. For a period we worked there. Then we worked in Istanbul only. Yet we departed in time and I followed our own way.

Ilgaz Benekay : So what you talk about now is the old way how toque (guitar) and cante meet. I?d really like to emphasize this one. Also I would like you to know that depending on my efforts of exploring in Turkey the first cantaor is Salim D?ndar and the second one is you. I know that you sing at special gatherings. Besides this of course you sang so much other things. So what I am trying to say is you have this singer side also.

Do?an Canku : Thanks. But I am an instrumentalist in the first place. Actually, I had this singing issue before Modern Folk ??l?s? and also before I met Salim but I sang one or two things only. However I remember that before Salim, there was also Ergun ?zer.

Ilgaz Benekay : Did they sing flamenco?

Do?an Canku : Ergun ?zer used to play the piano. He had a group named Los Espanolas. With saxophone and trumpet?He was a personality whom I had admired most. He was a very good musician. He used to sing flamenco well but he was singing with piano accompaniment. Then piano and guitar came together and something flourished. What I talk about must in 64 or 65. For a very short time, we also shared the same stage with Ergun. Actually before all of these I had a group, with my friends ?nal and H?seyin. We used to sing and play Spanish music. Then another friend of mine, Do?u ??y?lmaz joined this group. We used to make Latin music. We also played flamenco with ?nal but just for fun. At the places we worked, if a person from the audience would ask something to us, we used to reply in Spanish - as a joke between us. Sometimes also there were Spanish people in the audience. They would not understand what I was saying because I used to sing in Spanish sentences with no grammatical error but totally irrelevant to the song. So we used to have this funny and joker side. Then I started to think. Spanish music was well-known globally. Also flamenco was well-known music. So why not Turkish music be this way?

Ilgaz Benekay : Is this something possible without ruining the essence? For instance flamenco had been changed much with the influence of South America, North America or jazz?.

Do?an Canku : Yes but it has become a synthesis but turned out to be fine. I mean, it is totally unique pleasure to listen to authentic flamenco, it has a different flavor but you can no longer change Paco or Tomatito back to old way. But don?t they play also in a classical way? So in short, while I was pondering on these ideas and try to decide what to do, Modern Folk ??l?s? was born.

Ilgaz Benekay : You mean it started from the idea of presenting the Turkish music to world?

Do?an Canku : I mean the idea was not playing flamenco but to play Turkish music in polyphony. But the fact was flamenco has gone into my veins. Everything I used to play, I was playing like flamenco but I have not spent a single effort to achieve that.

Ilgaz Benekay : I am a witness of this. I truly agree with you about the things you say. As a guitarist I used to buy those records eagerly at those times. For instance, Kara Toprak by A??k Veysel. Esin Av?ar singing and Modern Folk ??l?s? accompanying her? Among all those sounds, I clearly remember the sound of your guitar at high tones you played just like in Spanish style. That was what I adored. With everything... That was what you have achieved with Modern Folk ??l?s?.

Do?an Canku : I had never quitted flamenco even at those times. I continued to enlarge my flamenco repertoire. But I had never given a concert only playing flamenco. Maybe one or two times in Istanbul? Also one or two in Napoli, Italy? I had given a concert together with a jazz band.

Ilgaz Benekay : So why? What was the reason of performing flamenco so few?

Do?an Canku : First of all I did not have the self confidence about it. I mean, I have never considered myself as a flamenco musician. You cannot find any statement by me saying that I do flamenco at my interviews.

Ilgaz Benekay : So this is the first time then.

Do?an Canku : But I still do not say such a thing. But you say so.

Ilgaz Benekay : Though you should say so since you really are. Maybe you remember, Serranito had come to Istanbul. It was his second time here and you had a house down at Levent. We have brought Seranito to your house. So he played Recuerdo de la Alhambra by Tarrega. And then he played it as rumba also. So we asked you to play but you were not sure about it. However you sat and played a beautiful samba by Jobim. Seranito was astonished.

Do?an Canku : Apparently he admired Jobim much. Now I say that I am a person who loves flamenco music very much but loving and using are two different things. Let me put this way, sometimes you love a woman much yet you do not want to abuse her or you love a friend and then again you do not use his friendship for your own benefits. But the love you feel inside has always a reflection on yourself. As for Flamenco, I feel the same. I love flamenco also I try to play it so it echoes in my music. So inevitably I play this way, even if I had wanted I wouldn?t play in another way. This is what I feel like, how my hands move. So it would be something pretentious to say I am a flamenco musician. You made us remember the night with Seranito. I will tell something else. One night we have been playing at a place by Bosphorus together with Rene (Macaro?lu), Ayhan (Tanyel). The club manager came and said; ?Paco de Lucia will come?. When the manager said he wanted to listen to me, I thought he was joking. Still not believing, time passed and by midnight, Paco came. I was shocked to see him. They forced me to go on and play. Well I said; ?Don?t be ridiculous!? I was so excited and totally lost control. Then I tried to calmed down and think what to play. The audience was also very much attached. Paco and his friends sat down and we started to play. First welcomed them and then I said; ?I will play something special for you?. So I played Sultani Yegah Sirto.

Ilgaz Benekay : That was really one of the most beautiful things you have ever done because as we remember Paco by his Entres dos Aguas, we know you by Sultani Yegah Sirto. Even all my students play it.

Do?an Canku : Paco is a very matured musician. He is maybe the number one in the world. While I played, they did not touch anything though their food was served. He was totally listening to me. He listened with great attention and applauded with joy. At that moment, a boy came next to me. He had been my student a while ago. So he had brought Paco for listening. I went to their table and met him. Actually my student has really insisted to make him come though he was too tired. But he told he was so glad that he had come. He told me; ?Wherever I go, I see Pacos everywhere. You played flamenco to me but you have interpreted my music within a synthesis of your music, so it is so beautiful seeing that you contribute both to my music and yours?. So we sat and talked this way.

Many years later, I heard that he had repeated the same words to someone else. I do not know if this is correct or not but as far as I heard he had told that Do?an Canku is the best in synthesizing his music and flamenco. This is really something to be proud of, of course if it is true.

Ilgaz Benekay : I do not know how much it is correct to define you as a flamenco fan but I believe flamenco is a life style. So as for me, a person who listens to this music with great attention is also a flamenco fan but the same is valid for those ones who feel this music in their veins and who dances flamenco.

Do?an Canku : I totally agree with you. Though I am a guitarist, I have always felt estranged by defining myself as a flamenco guitarist.

Ilgaz Benekay : No, you should not think this way. Every single guitarist who plays flamenco in Turkey, had not started directly with flamenco. Usually they have started with playing classical guitar or by listening to Segovia. When you start exercising a Carcassi etude, a short melody which you hear or a different style of playing which you meet by Sabicas bring new horizons.

When you started to play flamenco, you wanted to involve you own storied and melodies. Yes I remember there was an Azerbeijani song called Ayr?l?k. Not in your first recording but at the second time you recorded it you have told me; ?Look, I managed to make it within 12/4 beat, I made it Alegria?. This is a wonderful thing, a perfect fusion made by bringing Alegria and Ayr?l?k together.

Besides, as far as I can see you have chosen the flamenco style in your life also. You take garlic when you have a headache, you are a vegetarian, you live completely with an eastern philosophy, have your own way of food preference.

I would like to clarify something here. We, in one sense, somehow acted like cowards. We thought we could not earn money playing flamenco. We thought it is impossible to make a living with this music in Turkey since it is so strange or new for the public. Of course the thing to do was to mix it with Turkish music. You had an astonishing strength of purpose. You said that you are a musician and you deal only with music, nothing else. Though you had difficulties, you did not give up. For me, this is flamenco. Because this is what a gypsy does in Andalucia. If he does flamenco, this what he does, he tries his best. But on the other hand maybe he sleeps in the parks on a bank. I remember those times when you were sleeping bag. In short, this is flamenco. So do not hesitate to say that you do flamenco.

Do?an Canku : ?Musician? is not a title that I put on myself. This is something is what I have worn since my birth or maybe before I was born. Everybody tells that I am so talented in many ways. There is job that I could not do. Even in our house, my wife and everyone who knows me tells that. They say; ?This man can do everything except to give birth?. I know about botanic, I am a professional sportsman, even to the level of being a coach. I mean, I can do everything. But none of this can create in me what the music does. So I can say the music is me.

Ilgaz Benekay : You are a Turkish flamenco musician, that?s what I?d like to emphasize.

Do?an Canku : Thanks. Let?s continue. Then I said to myself that I should earn money from music of course without making concession. But how much? As much as it falls into my share. I could earn a lot of money. But saying this I know that the thing emerged was not my music, that was not me. Consequently, maybe I should have tried to do another job but make the music in my style, in spite of my talents I couldn?t take myself away from that musical environment. Besides, I cannot be a civil servant. Nobody can restrain me. I am the boss of myself only. I can sleep two hours in a day or maybe ten hours if I want. But it depends totally on my will. This is what I am. I am the music itself. This is how I am with flamenco music.

Ilgaz Benekay : You meant the freedom when you said this is what I am.

Do?an Canku : Yes, yes certainly. You see, you tell it and I accept what you say with pleasure because what you were trying to say actually was this. Though I lived that dilemma of earning money from flamenco or not but I earned it. I played flamenco in many night clubs.

Ilgaz Benekay : This is totally about the talent. You have sing the song Mediteraneo same as Juan Manuel Sera. You used to sing it in Bodrum nights. But if the ambiance is good only then they would listen from you flamenco. That was what I tried to stress. You have your own style. Also I?ve heard something if you also tell us about it since it is something important for the history. You have said that you had accompanied to a lady Spanish dancer in Antalya. Can you tell us about it?

Do?an Canku : We were four people at that group, drums, bass, piano and guitar. A couple came there. A woman named Dana Maria, she was singing paso dobles. She used to practice under the table while she ate. She had shown me some figures. I bought special boots. After I return Ankara I started to practice with them. We studied together also in Ankara for two months. I accompanied the dancer. Not at all the songs of course but only at one of them. At the others the band accompanied.

Ilgaz Benekay : Even if it was only for a song, this was something unique in Turkey.

Do?an Canku : But I have accompanied to dancers with the guitar a lot. A Spanish dance group had come to Ankara. We met at the roof of the hotel. Twenty two people? We had a concert so after the concert we met them. There were three women and a guitarist. So we brought our guitars too with the purpose to getting to know each other better. I started singing a song in Portuguese. One of them was from Portugal and she was shocked. In the end, I sang a flamenco song. It was a Bulerias. They shocked more. So then it went on with playing Alegrias and so on. Then they took their instruments and played a few songs. One of them asked them to play a Fandango. The guitarist tried to play but he couldn?t. He was an amateur. The woman took the guitar from him and gave it to me. So I played a Fandango. The guitarist hugged me. Then I also met Mexican Ambassador of Turkey and me his daughter. With their help, I played in front of the Spanish Ambassador. Their wives danced with my music. Of course these happened at their house. I received a scholarship from the Spanish Ambassador in Madrid Conservatoire.

Ilgaz Benekay : Why didn?t you take it?

Do?an Canku : Modern Folk ??l?s? was new that time and we were popular. I decided that I could not leave my friends so that was a fault. Afterwards the ambassador told me; ?Ok do not come to Madrid but at least I will bring the Spanish press here?. He was impressed because I have played him Alegrias from Sabicas. But it was not just the same, I have been adding things from myself. You know these songs, even in Spain they would not dare to play them. Those are so classical flamenco.

Ilgaz Benekay : These were so important even for those days.

Do?an Canku : He promised me that he would bring the Spanish press if we?d make a concert at Institute Fran?ais. So we did and new offers received.

Ilgaz Benekay : Do?an, we know also that you are a teacher. I guess you taught many guitarists. It would be a long list if we count their names, so we don?t. But you can tell their names of course if you like. In Turkey today, we see a fusion flamenco which we listen and like. Jazz is also involved in it and South American guitar brought many possibilities. In this sense, everybody can play Alegria as they like within 12/4 beat. So as a Turkish musician, what are your suggestions to flamenco musicians, audience, singers, dancers?

Do?an Canku : You consider me so important, what could my suggestions be? You ask for musicians in general or only flamenco?

Ilgaz Benekay : Just flamenco. Maybe you can suggest things for the beginners?

Do?an Canku : First, flamenco is an authentic music. A special music... Like ours or Chinese or any other folkloric music. However flamenco has a magic which has spread worldwide. It is known through out the world and has become the folklore of whole world. It progresses very quickly. If we just take a look at, we can say it is the most quickly improved folkloric music in the world.

Ilgaz Benekay: Andalucia is lucky in that sense because it is the place where Umayyad had reigned. If we think Zyrap and lute as a whole, this is where guitar comes from. Umayyad had brought by Asian and Jewish music. There was polyphonic music. Also the gypsies? It is quite astonishing to see that staring from the 7?th century they have lived in India but somehow they have migrated to Andalucia. They have taken the music there and made it their own. Sing it in weddings and funerals?.

Do?an Canku : We had also come from Asia. We had these countries around us, Spain, Italy, Greece and many others?

Ilgaz Benekay : Afterwards Christopher Columbus had discovered America continent so this is how this music also traveled there. It has been renewed in Cadiz. So even now if a Eskimo hears this music he can find a piece from himself. Or we listen to it and we try to find connection with our music. So we always talk about it and discuss on the philosophy.

Do?an Canku : That?s why I think there should be a preparation period before starting. Maybe the who will start first should sit and listen flamenco, but the authentic style first not today?s version, whole day as if meditating. He should start with Sabicas times. He should have it even in his mp3 player. First his body should start to vibrate with it. If he is going to be a guitarist, he should take the classical training first.

Ilgaz Benekay : Let?s clarify it more. In the conservatoires there is a different tendency. They leave flamenco out of it. But for instance Paco de Lucia plays Aranjuez by Rodrigo. He plays maybe better than the classical guitarists. Or let?s take Rafael Riqueni? he does the same. So actually everybody is comes from that classical training.

Do?an Canku : They have asked Paco if he knows to read notes. He had said; ?No?. For me, he just jokes. How can it be while he is the man who played a whole concerto? Those are all very educated men. Same as if you do farming, first you would rest the land for a while before sowing. You would try to make the land ready depending on what you will sow. Then you would plan and next you would start. The classical methods lie at the origins of flamenco technique. Even if a student would directly start with flamenco, I would show the same techniques. But I have to say that flamenco is really something different. For instance, if you play classical, you start with certain melodies first and when you?re advance you play the same tunes on your own style. But at flamenco once you start, you have to put your style into it. So you can do this only by feeling it not by learning the notes. Now let?s imagine you ask questions to me and say; ?You meditate and be aired, how do you do that, explain it?? But how can I explain it to you? How can I explain how I feel when I do? I only can say that I feel saturation, happiness and joy. But I cannot explain how it happens or how it exactly feels. You can feel it only if you do that too. For instance, if you are going to define the lemon, you would say that it is yellow and sour. But if the person who asks does not know what the sour is, he cannot understand what the lemon is also. So what he should do is to taste it. In this way, he understands what it is and never forgets.

Ilgaz Benekay : So you advise them to listen much.

Do?an Canku : There is a such a thing in flamenco. First the one should listen to it then start to play it. Once you started it, the discipline is necessary because you have to work a scale maybe for hours or days. The same thing is for dancers or singers? You know well that in Spain they sit and practice palmas for hours. To absorb what flamenco is, you should do what the flamenco musician do in Spain. And second, they should explore and do not go anyone who claims to be teaching flamenco. They should choose the ones who teaches this well.

Ilgaz Benekay : Let?s us take your last words for Flamencoturko

Do?an Canku : I thank for this interview and wish luck to flamencoturko in its existence in the world of press. How wonderful that we deal with flamenco.

Istanbul

October 2005